Issue 16 Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness

martin mcguinness

As the first anniversary of the new Executive approaches, Martin McGuinness reflects on a year in office as deputy First Minster, sharing his thoughts with Owen McQuade on the all-island agenda and his hopes for the rest of his term, as a foundation for future peace.

Your role as deputy First Minister is very much a joint office. How have you found that?

I think there’s no doubt that given that Ian Paisley and I never had a conversation prior to 26 March last year, and have only really got to know each other since 8 May, things have worked well. It’s obvious that Ian and I have a positive working relationship. Many people said that was impossible, that it was unachievable.

I was always convinced that whenever the DUP decided to come into government to share power and join in the institutions, that the only possible reason for them to do so was to make the process work. Since Ian Paisley has come into government alongside myself, from a position of equality – a joint position – I have found him to be very dedicated and committed to making this process succeed.

How have you found devolution this time round?

What strikes me is the greater sense of stability. As a Minister of Education in an administration led by David Trimble and Seamus Mallon, I always had a feeling of insecurity, mostly because of the approach adopted by David Trimble and his failure to fully embrace the institutions and Sinn Féin’s participation. I certainly feel on this occasion that there is a sense of sustainability. The fact is that now we are almost 10 months in government with the DUP, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists.

We have reached a situation where, against a backdrop of people saying it wouldn’t work, we’ve confounded them all.

It is working. Not only that, we have managed to agree a Budget, a Programme for Government and an Investment Strategy to cover the next 10 years. I think that, along with how everything else has gone, is a pretty remarkable experience.

When you look at something like equality, for example gay rights, there’s a clear difference between SF and the DUP. Do you see such issues becoming a problem as we go forward?

As we go forward, we’ve cracked the hardest nut – in agreeing that we should be in government together. We’ve also cracked the nut of agreeing a Programme for Government, a Budget and the Investment Strategy. These were huge developments. But there will be other challenges; there will be issues that we won’t agree on.

The whole issue of equality for everyone – an inclusive process – is something that Ian Paisley has signed up to. I think the Office of the First and deputy First Minister has to continue to defend the rights of citizens without fear or favour. As time moves on, if there are different dimensions or aspects to that which the FM [First Minister] side has difficulty with, what we have to do is try and talk them through with a view to getting a resolution.

What’s your take on the devolution of criminal justice? Why should it be sooner rather than later?

I think it’s imperative that powers are transferred from London to this administration. This administration, albeit we are in existence some 10 months, has clearly shown that it can work, and the politicians that adopt the ministerial positions are very serious politicians, very determined to make it work. That builds confidence within the community that we can handle the most difficult of portfolios.

Of course, the reason we need powers transferred is that if we have the intelligence and the ability to handle huge sums of money in departments like health and education, agriculture, regional development and so forth, then we should have the collective wit to be able to deal with the whole issue of policing and justice.

And it is important to deal with those issues because there is a demand out there in the community. There’s an awful lot of anti-social behaviour taking place. The only way to resolve it is an effective policing service. Many of the arguments that were made in the past about direct rule Ministers related to people’s belief that direct rule Ministers didn’t understand what the problems were, and were detached from the lives of ordinary people in Belfast and Derry, Dungannon and Coleraine. And so I think that there’s a very powerful argument for having a local Minister in charge.

The sense that I have is that the vast majority of our people would be very willing to see powers transferred now, particularly in the aftermath of us almost being one year in government together.

It’s now politically correct to have everything ‘all-island’ but what about true, pragmatic, forward progress on the all-island agenda?

There have been two meetings of the North/South Ministerial Council; we’ve just come recently from one in Dundalk. I regard both those meetings as very, very successful. During my time as Minister of Education, as part of the Northern delegation that went to meet with the Taoiseach and his Ministers, a lot of those were very scripted affairs with Ministers keeping to the notes provided to them by civil servants.

What I have noticed about these two latest meetings is the willingness of Ministers on all sides to engage on issues that affect people in their daily lives. I think all of us know and understand that the whole purpose of the North/South Ministerial Council is to establish how we can develop, in an all-island way, issues that are mutually beneficial to the government here in Belfast and the government in Dublin.

There’s a wide range of issues affecting the economy, the whole issue of energy, roads, infrastructure; and we’ve seen the sizeable donation by the Irish Government to two very important road projects: the North West Gateway to Aughnacloy and the Belfast-Larne road. These are practical issues that affect people in their daily lives. [There have been] decisions taken on the Ulster Canal, for example, on a further 12 kilometre stretch from Clones to Upper Lough Erne, and a wide range of other issues: child protection [as well as] ongoing discussions about an all-island parliamentary group and a consultative forum.

It’s all very much in its infancy at the moment but I think it’s progressing well, and I think we can go from strength to strength by ensuring that we continue to meet through plenary sessions but also to meet through sectoral meetings, which now take place much more frequently.

If you were to pick one thing to achieve by the end of this term, what would it be?

I would like to see major advances against child poverty. I think that all of us are very conscious in our responsibilities as Ministers to ensure that we build a fair and peaceful, and prosperous and law- abiding society. The whole issue of child poverty is one that exercises all of us, and it’s shameful that any child would live in poverty.

As important as all of that is that if we can go through this four-year term without interruption, we will have provided a very solid foundation stone on which to build the future, with unionist and nationalist and republican politicians working together. I think that will be a huge strength for our people. If we succeed, it would undoubtedly, in my opinion, put the past into the past; not forgetting the past, but certainly the 800 years of bad history that there has been – the instability and the conflicts – can all be consigned to the dustbin of history if we continue to work together with a goodwill towards each other, to bring about circumstances which will see people’s lives prosper and the economy grow.

The economy’s obviously of critical importance. It’s one of the major priorities. We see a successful economy as one that can help us tackle child poverty and all of the other deprivations that affect our people in many different parts of the North.

Of course, there’s a lot of change taking place both in health and education. We’re charged with managing that change, bringing it forward as Ministers. Quite clearly there are huge challenges for us as we move forward but I think we’ve built a solid foundation on which to continue that.

Will Ireland be united in 2016 or 2050 and what will it look like?

Where we’ve come to at this moment is pretty remarkable; for Sinn Féin and the DUP to be in government beside the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP is an absolutely incredible achievement which will bring huge benefits, in my opinion, to the people that all of us collectively represent.

I see us all very much as being in uncharted waters at the moment. We are moving forward steadily. Obviously, I’m an Irish republican. Ian Paisley’s allegiance is to what he calls the United Kingdom. I don’t have any allegiance to the United Kingdom; my allegiance is to Ireland and the people of Ireland. But in the Office of the First and deputy First Minister, I have an allegiance to the First Minister, just as I hope he has an allegiance to me as deputy First Minister, because of the unique arrangement that we are involved in which, if it works, is going to change the face of Irish politics for ever and for the good.

I believe that anything is possible. Some people in the media said to me prior to the restoration of the institutions: “You will never be in government with Ian Paisley or with the DUP.” I watched them here on 26 March when we came out of the room we were meeting in and it became clear that Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley had made two very powerful statements saying that the institutions would be restored on 8 May, and the media were absolutely gobsmacked.

So I hope to gobsmack them in the future, but the way forward to a re-united Ireland that I want to see has to be by purely peaceful and democratic means. This is the only sensible and sane way forward. The huge beauty of what we are is that we are all beginning to get to know each other. I hope over time that we will all become comfortable with each other, albeit that we come from different political backgrounds but that we can continue to fight common denominators as we move forward and build on that in the interests of the people we represent.

Nobody has spoken more powerfully about the need to end the old hatreds and divisions on this island than Ian Paisley himself. I have listened to him on a number of occasions when he has spoken from the heart and I believe him – that’s what he wants to do. And I believe that he leads a party who are as determined to do that as he is. In the generality of where the DUP is coming from, they want to make this work and that gives me tremendous encouragement.